SGM Survivors

This was a very interesting point you made KS. As someone that grew up in the sgm movement I definitely would agree that I saw this happen. While I feel like my parents tried to have a pretty good balance, there was definitely a strong overtone in the church of never being able to measure up. If it was not to your parents expectations it was to the whole churches expectations on you of how you were suppose to turn out or act.

I had an interesting experience when I moved away and had a very close friend at school make a statement that it seemed like I had "something to prove", she could not fathom that I would feel that I needed to prove anything to anyone since I was preforming very well in a graduate program while being many years younger than anyone else there. I had to admit that I truly did/do feel I had something to prove not only to my parents but to every single person in my old church and the other sgm churches the know me. Its hard to explain to someone that did not grow up in sgm and I was not able to explain to her why I felt that I had to prove myself to all these people. I guess its like I feel have a microscope over me just waiting for the smallest glimmer or hint of mishap so they can jump up and down...saying "See...thats why women should not move away to school, or I told you a girl would not be able to handle it, she should have just stayed home and learned how to cook and found herself a man"

Sadly I would say of all of my friends that grew up in sgm my "emotional" abuse has been the least. Which is due entirely to the fact I have wonderful parents that have encouraged me to follow what I felt God had for my life. However, let me assure you there was no strong sgm backing in this for my parents.

Gradgirl, I am so proud of your parents. And of you, for acknowledging them this way. The Holy Spirit whispers inside your very own heart, and it is so encouraging to see that you hear Him for yourself and your parents "let" you. Bless you, bless you, bless you. One of my pet peeves about sgm is that authority figures are always hearing FOR you. Bleah.

2005 was definitely after SG moved to Calvinist/Reformed beliefs.

I certainly see a contradiction with between what they say they believe and what you mention about the book.

What were they trying to do in the church if people including some of your children weren't saved?

With a Reformed/Calvinist/"sovereign grace" view on election teaches that God decides who will be elected to salvation and when they will be elected. To be consistent with their teaching even if one of your children isn't saved there really isn't anything that can be done. They may not be part of "the elect" or their time of election hasn't come.

It is something how SG is inconsistent with their beliefs about Calvinism and election.

When Paul was asked, "What must I do to be saved", he did not respond with, "That depends on if you are one of the elect". The Calvinists and Reformers do not understand the full meaning and application of election nor predestination. They do not know the mind of God concerning this issue.

When I was first at SG, this was a non issue with no set doctrinal position, and there were many with varying views on this topic. It did not cause any division or tension at that time. But now it is a big deal for some reason.

This reminds me of what I learned in college History about the American Puritans in Massachusetts. In their colony -- which was based on church membership -- one had to have experienced a life-altering conversion to Christ in order to become a church member. Therefore, only born-again believers could be church members, and baptize their children.

A problem arose when the first American-born generations grew up, and - to their parents'/grandparents' consternation - not all had shown evidences of conversion by the time they reached adulthood. Church membership was so important to the societal structure that a Halfway Covenant was developed. People without conversion experiences who signed this covenant were allowed to attend church and take communion (if I remember correctly), but not allowed to vote in church matters. The eventual result of this watering-down of church membership was that their congregations slowly became more secular in orientation. And by the 1800s - despite the effects of the Great Awakening - the Puritans had devolved into Unitarians.

So, this issue of how to deal with the unregenerate children of born-again adult church members is a very important one. If we let them grow up taking communion alongside us, at what point do we say to them, "no, you can't take communion now, because you haven't had a born-again experience in which you've surrendered your life to Christ?"

I can understand the strong concern of SGM parents wanting to ensure their teen/young-adult children are truly born-again. But that runs into the "election" and "sovereignty" issue, and the reality that someone may not 'see the light' on another's schedule. Plus, if SGM pastors are always teetering on the edge of dismissal due to family problems, how much more important - for their careers! - to ensure that their children get saved, or at least don't rebel openly!

The pressure to ensure that their children get saved - while also believing that God is sovereign and that not all are among the elect - must be intense in SGM now, particularly on the pastors!

Hi Don,

What do you think about the doctrine of "household salvation"? Do you think it possibly might have some merit? The death angel passed over the whole house in the OT that was covered by the blood. The entire household and even the extended family was protected by the blood. Acts 11:14 says "He will speak the words to you by which you will be saved, you and your household." Also Acts 16:15 says that Lydia and her household were baptized.

What are your thoughts about this?

If you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Passage Acts 11:14:
14He will give and explain to you a message by means of which you and all your household [as well] will be saved [[a]from eternal death].

Hi Ellie,

But what about small children, retarded or severly mentally ill, etc.
Also the verse does not say "Only those". This verse does not rule out household salvation.

God is good and we can trust Him. He makes Himself known to all, sometimes in ways that we know not.

Hi Ellie,

That is true. So do you think that household salvation is a possibilty according to the Scriptures?

Also Dennis, that is not proper exegesis. The verse in context was to Lydia and her household. Not to everyone and their household, in general.

I believe that God makes Himself known at some point in time to everyone. How He does it or what it involves is a mystery. We can not know everything. But we do know that He is just and good.

Hi Ellie,

What is your understanding of 1 Cor 7:14 "For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."

He is speaking to new believers, that if they are married to unbelievers, that the RELATIONSHIP is sanctified. Christians were warned not to be unequally yoked. The verses are in context about the marriage covenant, not about the unbeliever's salvation.

Hi Ellie,

It specifies unblieving husbands and wives, not the relationship as a whole. It also says the children are holy. So again, this looks like the possibility of household salvation, do you agree?